Maths or Power that win race.

[IKENTY]

After speaking to one of the guys that I rate as being one of the best mechanics in SKB today I decied to post this.

Some people have 600hp but cant win a race while 200hp cars beating them so I want to know what maths do you guys think can win over power. I will post mine first.

When putting a turbo on a NA car there is no reason to go down to 8.5:1 compression and run 20psi when a 9.5:1 compression with 9psi will make more power and have the turbo do less work as most likely that car had a compression of 11:1 already.

Maths win race. Ask the Starlet man mechanic. LOLLL

[Yanz aka Stppnrzr]

U got a point there with ur compression talk.. I believe in that too


But this is my input on cams

What u think about racing N/A, lets say skunk2 stage 2 honda B series cams

I had experience with them as in drove a car wth some and I know what they do is scavenge for more air to pass into the cylinders to make more power once your fuel mixture is correct...

ok.. my point is u build and b16 with skunk 2 stage 2 cams, tthat has same idle characteristics as stock cams so idling and low end torque would not be a problem, thats the advantage of these vtec system in honda engines.

They say u go one direction N/A or turbo... and They also say N/a cams cannot work with turbo...

Judging from how these cams operated and felt I know they can work with turbo which wil result in more power from a turbo'd engine with racing n/A cams rather than taking them back out as the turbo will be doing what we wanted the cams to do...

so while the cams are scavenging the turbo is forcefeeding....equals more power than stock cams....

Am I making sense to you...? I know some people jus follow what they read on forums and dont have any mechanical or driving experience to understand how these thngs work and I believe i gnna do it to prove myself wrong

[IKENTY]

That was said perfect. A turbo engine to me is NA being forcedfed.

Headers Intake Exhaust is what most people choose to do to make power but it does not always work reason being the two most inportant parts Headers and Exhaust are usually done wrong. 3" exhaust on a NA engine???? This is crazy. Removing the cat is good but you have to either remove the stock exhaust or get a "Y" pipe to feel the effect. Headers is a long topic but basic stuff: MAke sure they are for that engine as headers operate on a process called scavenging (I will touch on this later). Too big diameter headers will make your torque disappear for good, too small header losts of torque at low rpm.
I will continue tomorrow.

[Nizman]

After speaking to one of the guys that I rate as being one of the best mechanics in SKB today I decied to post this.

Some people have 600hp but cant win a race while 200hp cars beating them so I want to know what maths do you guys think can win over power. I will post mine first.

When putting a turbo on a NA car there is no reason to go down to 8.5:1 compression and run 20psi when a 9.5:1 compression with 9psi will make more power and have the turbo do less work as most likely that car had a compression of 11:1 already.

Maths win race. Ask the Starlet man mechanic. LOLLL

As we all know Racing is a science, and the best combinations and industry 'tricks' will make your setup more potent than the next guys setup even if you both used the same parts, it all comes down to knowledge and skills.

Turbocharging an N/A car, say a stock B16 Gen2, with a static compression of 10.4:1. With a healthy motor and a simple turbo kit, and a really good tuner this engine can see over 500hp fairly comfortably with no issues for the years to come, this has been proven over and over again. At that compression you would expect the motor to boost earlier and make more power with less boost than say if u were to drop the cr to 9:1 and keep the same boost levels. Nothing is wrong with dropping the cr once you are planning to go all out to make more power. But for a street car looking for response and good driveability around town i would stick a stock motor. Remember when you lower your compression your off-boost driveability sucks! I will reply to the other posts shortly!

[Nizman]

U got a point there with ur compression talk.. I believe in that too


But this is my input on cams

What u think about racing N/A, lets say skunk2 stage 2 honda B series cams

I had experience with them as in drove a car wth some and I know what they do is scavenge for more air to pass into the cylinders to make more power once your fuel mixture is correct...

ok.. my point is u build and b16 with skunk 2 stage 2 cams, tthat has same idle characteristics as stock cams so idling and low end torque would not be a problem, thats the advantage of these vtec system in honda engines.

They say u go one direction N/A or turbo... and They also say N/a cams cannot work with turbo...

Judging from how these cams operated and felt I know they can work with turbo which wil result in more power from a turbo'd engine with racing n/A cams rather than taking them back out as the turbo will be doing what we wanted the cams to do...

so while the cams are scavenging the turbo is forcefeeding....equals more power than stock cams....

Am I making sense to you...? I know some people jus follow what they read on forums and dont have any mechanical or driving experience to understand how these thngs work and I believe i gnna do it to prove myself wrong

Ok... Yanz... I think we went over this sometime ago in a personal chat. I still hold my side to say that N/A cams will not work properly for a Turbo setup. Remember I went over the fact that the N/A cams have a much longer duration and higher lift over the turbo cam settings. This is the deal with the motor's natural need to scavenge for fresh air using the velocity of the exhaust gases leaving the cylinder. This is what Honda has done on the DOHC motors.... opening the intake valve a few degrees before the exhaust valve closes, drawing in the fresh air just before the intake stroke starts. With a turbo motor you would not need this scavenging effect, as i was telling you with a dohc vtec motor this valve overlap is normally dialed out since the turbo it providing the forced air, the motor does not have to work as hard or work at all to get the air needed in the cylinder. I love to read peoples opinions on various forums and it has been said over and over that the N/A cams will defeat the purpose of turbocharging your car, the gains you might be expecting will be lost by installing these cams. If you look at Dynamic Compression, the cam profile plays a big role in this. Scavenging is just not necessary in my eyes for a turbo motor. My 2 Cents!

[Nizman]

That was said perfect. A turbo engine to me is NA being forcedfed.

Headers Intake Exhaust is what most people choose to do to make power but it does not always work reason being the two most inportant parts Headers and Exhaust are usually done wrong. 3" exhaust on a NA engine???? This is crazy. Removing the cat is good but you have to either remove the stock exhaust or get a "Y" pipe to feel the effect. Headers is a long topic but basic stuff: MAke sure they are for that engine as headers operate on a process called scavenging (I will touch on this later). Too big diameter headers will make your torque disappear for good, too small header losts of torque at low rpm.
I will continue tomorrow.

Ok....
Intakes... Usually people run for the cold air intake or a short ram intake. Nothing is wrong with either, but to me a combination of both usually fits the bill. The cold air draws in cooler air from under the bumper and this is good.. cooler denser air would mean more power right?.... but the motor has to work a little harder to draw the air in, due to the length of the pipe, the throttle response isnt always there. You might not notice it but its there! Short ram aka Hot Air intake ... lol... these are nice, loud and the throttle response is on, but the flaw is that the filter sits somewhere in engine bay getting heatsoak and when the fan kicks in... blowing hotter air on it...killing performance. Think about combining both, Comptech has done this with their Icebox design, incorporating the short ram intake in a shielded box with an extension running down into the bumper....somewhat like how the factory does it on most cars.

Headers.... Usually people go wrong here, header designs are crucial and it can go as far as who made it to determine how it will perform. This has always been a bigger debate over intakes and exhaust systems. Simple because a lot of power can be gained or lost in this area alone. I will not suggest anything due to the touchiness of this topic.

Exhausts... 3" exhaust can be used on N/A engines. The higher displacement/power motors can benefit from a higher flow exhaust. H and K series motors love the 2.75" and up exhausts. They make more power than anyone would have imagined. Currently I only know of one (N/A) car in the federation that uses a full 3" exhaust and thats "De Whip" ... and the motor is a 1.8 with a compression of around 10:1 due to the low cr pistons used. and the car makes power... more power than when it had on the 2.5 inch exhaust.

[Yanz aka Stppnrzr]

on the cams and turbo point... thats where cam gears can come in and play a role so that valves wont overlap

[Nizman]

Dialing out the overlap on such big cams might lead to v2v (valve to valve) and v2p (valve to piston) clearance issues.....

[Top_Secret]

Ahhhh lemme just sit back and learn some stuff here interesting.........................

[Yanz aka Stppnrzr]

AHHHHH!!!!

Now this is where the mechannical experience comes in.


The lift of the valves are not an issue, the issue is the height of the piston... As you guys know and kimran saw and held the pistons that went into juice (high compression). while sorting out a power issue we had which we found out at the end was an ignitor problem.

We were playing with the cam gears and advanced the intake cam all the way and retarded it all the without any V2V or V2P interference while exhaust was set at zero degrees.

If you understand how an engine works or turns there will only be a suspicion of V2V interference if the exhaust is advanced all the way and the intake is retarded all the way on a honda and there aint no reason for doin tht in the frst place because no power gains in tht direction.

What i suggest is advancingthe intake cam for tthe excess air then retard the exhast a tad to help decrease the overlap if there is any at all. plus the duration